warning: this is most likely highly controversial. and since i can't seem to properly wrap my head around the idea at its core at the moment (reality is coming! reality is coming!) a lot of it is going to be iffy...in fact, the whole thing smells iffy (not to mention fishy) but i'll say it anyway, and let you flame it out in your heads. or possibly the comments section.
most of the SF world is trying to 'transcend' the genre, trying to destroy the 'restrictive boundaries' they create for writers and i'm all for that...but in terms of local literature, i'm beginning to think it might be a bit wrong-headed, or, perhaps, an inappropriate approach for our purposes.
kind of like our country leaping into democracy when the people were never really ready for it, but that's another matter entirely, despite the similarities...
see, i'm beginning to think that our problem, unlike with other markets, isn't that we're saturated with 'substandard' commercial mass marketable fics, that we don't have 'literary-grade' SF (whatever that means); in fact, (ok, here it comes) it seems to me that what we actually have is a terminally acute insistence on literary writing standards that might actually be detrimental to the natural evolution of SF. see, locally, the result of this insistence seems to be that we don't get enough of that kind of SF that can say 'screw your standards, i've got IDEAS!' (a bit extreme, i know, you can't totally screw literary standards and get away with it, but i hope you get what i mean.)
i feel the recent first Philippine Graphic/Fiction Awards, with most (though, admittedly, not all) of the stories that got shortlisted, provide evidence of this line of thought.
i'm not saying we need to start churning out Tolclones, but it might be useful to remember the deeply set pulp roots of SF; SF is marginalized for a reason, and that's because it can say 'fuck it' to anyone and everyone else's standards.
that's not what i'm seeing locally. and that's what i think needs to change if SF is going to get anywhere in the country.
of course, if you want to promote a literary tradition that holds no genre sacred, then i suppose we're going in exactly the right direction. call me a dinosaur, but i do love SF.
26 comments:
Shit, I hate when we think alike. I just saw a post that said the same thing and was just about to comment on that.
Will just gather my thoughts and then let the debates begin again! ;-)
Thinking about it, I agree that I prefer my stories nowadays to harken back to the pulp-roots of the genre instead of being too literary. Moreover, given how ignorant local readership is of such pulp history, I figure that "everything old is new again".
However, I do think local lit can be the best of both worlds. Why can't we have stories that have literary writing but also chock-ful of ideas? My fear is that at the other end of this extreme is the dumbing-down of stories to appeal to the masses. And this, I think, is even worse. In the end, the literary standards will help keep "the barbarians at the gate" so to speak.
Er, sorry if this is confusing...
i don't mind the dumbing down effect because there will always be writers playing in the in-betweens and the far-beyonds. books with 'mass-appeal' have their place in the literary world to my mind, even if it's just to demonstrate the vitality of our publishing world...
as for having the best of both worlds, i totally agree. however, the way i see it, there is no particular need to specifically advocate 'literary' writing in SF...our culture in literature already has that sort of slant. besides, the so-called 'mainstream' literati are bound to have the (let's call it) 'literary side of SF' covered (i know some 'nongenre' writers who's concepts are far beyond simply 'spec-fic worthy'--and really, SF-oriented people have no place protesting that sort of 'genre invasiveness', because that's just the sort of blurring of the boundaries that they're looking for)--SF writers, on the other hand, i feel need to cover the other end of the spectrum because that side doesn't quite exist in our country at the moment, Philippine Ghost Stories and similar publications notwithstanding (incidentally, i actually think those books have the right idea...again, remember the pulps?).
not a comment, and probably unrelated: while reading this i'm reminded of two essays--pauline kael's 'trash, art, and the movies' (from 1969, i think) and more recent, walter kirn's fairly bombastic review of cynthia ozick's 'the din in the head' in the new york times. (it also got me to thinking about the reasons behind my potentially irrational dislike of jonathan franzen's stuff, but i already sound a little too much like a bibliography here, so let me stop there.)
i'm sure i could come up with a passably coherent comment, but with deadlines getting ready to fall over my head (you know the whole drill), i'll save it for later.
Hi skinnyblackcladdink. I found your post through a blog of someone I admire a lot (Dean Alfar). With regard to "inflammation", well, after reading it and digesting your ideas, could I perhaps invite you to check out our site, philippinegenrestories.blogspot.com? We're a local publishing company trying to develop fiction in the country, notably genre fiction. Analyzing your entry and seeing where your thoughts are going, something tells me we may like to see the stories you have in mind, if it's okay with you. Please feel free to email us if you have any questions. Thanks for the time!
Filipino SF for Filipinos.
Especially in the Filipino language. Might be ambitious but still I'm working on it.
ianmadrid: good luck with that.
personally, though, and i've expressed this often enough to be shot for unnationalistic tendencies, i'm deadset against insisting on particular local flavors in fiction, but if that's your cup of tea, good on you, mate, and more power to you.
you should also probably check-out and work with Philippine Genre Stories (pgenstories) who posted here just before you did...
My fear is that at the other end of this extreme is the dumbing-down of stories to appeal to the masses.
I seem to read Masses = Dumb in this statement. I dont agree with this. They just speak a different "language", probably even a non-written one.
Could be that the Masses = Dumb mindset is what is truly detrimental to the advancement of Spec Fic.
jego: that's definitely a part of it, yes, but i wouldn't invoke class struggle to explain everything.
remember that SF, in its highest ideals, is inherently intellectually elitist; however, in response to bc's 'fears', it can be done in a way that would appeal intelligently to the masses as well.
remember that SF, in its highest ideals, is inherently intellectually elitist
True in one respect. My first exposure to SF that I remember is through komiks--Aliwan, Hiwaga, Liwayway, etc. During those times, I never felt intellectually superior for reading SF. In fact I never realized I was reading Spec Fic. It could be that one "branch" of SF practitioners moved into more rarefied intellectual pursuits like Stanislaw Lem and Phil Dick, while others moved to pulp. Is one 'higher' than the other?
Far be it from me to invoke class struggle to explain everything. The struggle is one of language. I am not as chauvinistic as ianmadrid, but I think he's on the right track. The correct path to Filipino SpecFic is to find the universal aspects of the Filipino, and the Filipino aspects of the universal, and start from there, instead of trying to aim for the West. Anime is successful in the West because of its Japanese-ness.
may i ask a question, mr jego? i could be wrong, but i'm just wondering: are you suggesting there's one correct path for pinoy spec fic to take (since you used the article 'the')?
also, i'm inclined to believe that one reason anime is successful in 'the west' is less because of its being japanese than its being 'exotic.' or am i reading your statement wrong? (i'm sorry to spring the orientalist whatevs on you; i'm just genuinely curious.)
jego: of course there are always several angles and facets to any issue or definiton; still, SF is intellectual because even the pulpiest and most popular of SF is a game of the mind, of imagination, of what if. and as you will, i think, appreciate, not everyone finds SF to their taste, and it is the field's lack of concern for seeking the approval of such people that makes it elitist.
a characteristic lack of concern, i might add, that i feel missing locally, as SF writers seek the approval of the (if i may call them such) 'literati'.
your 'path', imho, is merely one way to achieving a truly vibrant SF environment in the country; as is my own perspective, which started this thread.
again, if that's your cup of tea, then go for it, and you're welcome to that perspective. in fact, i consider your perspective and insight valuable as well to the utmost development of the field.
SF is rich, with many different facets. that aspect of it that i choose to point out is one that i feel needs to be addressed and encouraged more than it is. people are always insisting on the importance of a Filipino presence in the thematic content of fiction; they also insist on a high standard of writing; me, i'm taking a stand by insisting on a new focus on idea-centricity, on the imaginitive play that i feel essentially distinguishes SF from other forms of literature. that's my take on the whole thing. given the fact that i'm addressing an observable gap in the literature, i think i'm well entitled to it.
Paul: are you suggesting there's one correct path for pinoy spec fic to take (since you used the article 'the')?
No Im not, Mr Paul. Im trying to answer a question: How do we revitalize Spec Fic in the Philippines? And my answer is to get as many readers interested in it, and that means not alientating the biggest sector of our society, and that means not looking down on them and writing something they can relate to. If that means looking for a new literary language, then so be it. But the correct path for you as an individual is whatever floats your boat.
also, i'm inclined to believe that one reason anime is successful in 'the west' is less because of its being japanese than its being 'exotic.'
I think youre absolutely right.
Skinny: SF is intellectual because even the pulpiest and most popular of SF is a game of the mind, of imagination, of what if. and as you will, i think, appreciate, not everyone finds SF to their taste, and it is the field's lack of concern for seeking the approval of such people that makes it elitist.
Got it. I thought you were originally making the connection that if it is a game of the mind, then it is elitist, which means the 'masses' only deserve mindless entertainment. Thanks for the clarification. I would think it's closer to tribalism than elitism, though. Elitism connotes being better than something and Im sure youd agree with me that SF is not 'better' than, say, social realism.
jego: good point. tribalism it is. takes into account that the word 'better' is perhaps a poor choice of words for describing anything in literature, because it all depends on where you're coming from, what you're trying to do, and your particular aesthetic tastes and choices.
i was, however, also referring to an early attempt at defining SF that called it the 'intellectual elite' of literature.
(Hehe sorry skinny am launching a massive counter-attack of comments while I have the time. See my replies in other blogs.)
jego: Whoa, wait a minute nobody said anything about the masses being dumb. I said that material is being dumbed down for them. If ever, blame should be laid on the feet on those who produce the said material (like the local movie world).
skinny:
To address some points:
--I've already mentioned my feeling about letting mainstream lit handle literary spec fic. However, to address this specifically, the problem with local mainstream lit is that they're derisive of spec fic to begin with so how can they be allowed to handle such material? And even the budding local spec fic community isn't exactly fanatical about keeping a literary standards. A good example is dean's first antho, which I think is a good indicator of those who submitted: I presume it ranges from both ends of the extremes, from literary to genre. So where exactly is the worry here?
Moreover, I think the so-called feeling of invasiveness is more prevalent with writers abroad rather with the local scene.
--I like the idea of the Philippine Ghost Stories as our version of pulp. However, I'm not so keen on their production values and-- especially so-- about whether they see themselves as producing fiction or non-fiction works. Of course I must admit that I haven't read any of their stuff so I'm probably talking out of my ear. However, I must cite a collection of ghost stories produced by UP press that looks good.
ianmadrid: Aside from the use of the Filipino language, what exactly do you mean by Filipino SF for Filipinos? Are skinny and jego correct about your meaning? However, I do agree with your call but instead of being nationalistic (as skinny calls it), I'd rather say that it's better to address being Filipino but without limiting one's audience to Filipinos. Why not write stories that can be appreciated by not only Filipinos but also by a global audience?
(more to come)
skinny: Well-clarified about SF being the so-called "intellectual elite." Likewise, it's not about being better but more of getting a person think. If the story excites (and incites) at the same time, well why not, right?
One example I like is Chris Roberson's Paragea which uses old pulp tropes and fashions it for the 21st century. In this case, I also grew up reading old pinoy komiks and loved them; why can't we use these ideas and give 'em back to Filipinos in new stories?
On the other hand, I don't think the local SF community "seeking" the approval of the literati but rather is being judged by their standards. After all, who holds the positions of judges in the contests, submissions, etc.? There's no escaping their scrutiny. But I figure once the local SF community has managed to build a solid base of writers and critics, then we can judge ourselves the way we want to (with hopefully a good set of standards).
Still, I see your point about addressing a hole in the current spec fic set-up. I say, go for it. However, as we've gone through previous arguments, I still think that we need standards on how we are to judge ourselves when coming up with stories.
jego: Like I mentioned in my comment to ianmadrid, I agree with you on how to use the Filipino aspects to write a Filipino story. However, I have to ask you: what do you mean about the creation of a new literary language?
Likewise, I'd say something about social realism and SF but then again, my bias would be showing.
;-)
bc: what you call 'literary spec fic' can stand on its own. that's my point. first, because the spec fic community already supports 'literary spec fic' to the extreme, and local (SF) writers already have a decidedly 'literary' slant, and, second, because the aim of 'literary spec fic' in the first place is to break out of genre restrictions. see how writers like Neil Gaiman and Jeff VanderMeer resort to 'alternate' labels, and never quite use SF/F to describe their work.
the spec fic that is derided that requires our support as i see it is the 'nonliterary' spec fic, which, i would argue, barely exists in our country.
but the important thing about my stand is that i'm not necessarily undermining the development of 'literary SF'... the re-alignment of emphasis onto ideas rather than style can only help all local SF, and is applicable to all it's existent or non-existent subgenres, be it literary or nonliterary, 'Filipino SF' or merely 'SF in the Philippines', and the ultimate utility of the approach is why i'm pushing this mode of thinking.
addendum: bc: standards in terms of technical writing competence will always be respected. however, the problem with the 'literary' standards as i see it is that they insist on objectifying a decidedly subjective component of literature. so what's judged 'good literature' depends on the tastes of those in power...however, that's not the point here.
if we are called to 'judge' our own works, i suggest 'judging' with an emphasis on ideas rather than style. that doesn't discount the presence of style, but simply deemphasizes it as a standard for judging examples of SF. let SF writers worry about competent writing and ideas more than elegant styling, wordplay and verbal scintillation. simple as that.
Banzai cat: what do you mean about the creation of a new literary language?
Just something that would communicate with those with whom authors wish to communicate. Something that speaks to them. Maybe it already exists and it isnt new at all. Maybe it's really the komiks. Or maybe it's dramas on radio.
I'm not really sure about SF in pure Tagalog/Filipino
It can be good at some point because it reflects patriotism and it could make a greater appeal to the masses but SF written in tagalog,in my opinion, would fail to eloquently express what it wants to say.
This is not to say that Tagalog/Filipino is a bad choice of language for a story but as skinny once commented, it would sound artificial. Plus, SF started in the english language. Do you see any SF books translated in Filipino? Maybe Taglish would suffice.
Also, SF in Tagalog today is all Fantasy and Horror. What about science fiction? And it is through
SciFi that new ideas are explored.
skinny: I'm all for generating new ideas for a SF story but with all these great concepts already thrown around by SF Authors,it's really intimidating to make one.
But its all about taking risks right?
df: whoa, hang on there, sorry df, but i never said you couldn't write an SF story in Filipino if you wanted to... just coz it's difficult to capture a 'natural voice' with a language doesn't mean it isn't possible... and a 'natural voice' isn't always what you'll be after when writing a story.
as for the generation of new ideas, well, actually, it's a lot harder and a whole lot less simple than just that. i'm all for it if you can do it, but that might not be all that realistic. the concept of idea-centricity is much more practical in that it isn't necessarily in the 'generation' of new ideas, but in the treatment of ideas in your work. as i mentioned elsewhere, what distinguishes SF from other forms of lit, what makes it a 'genre', is its ability to focus on ideas rather than any other element of the work.
sorry to contradict you, i just want to make sure everything's clear.
skinny: oh, righto. my bad.
so it's all about being "idea-centric". I'm getting lost here. couldn't a well written story also be idea-centric?
plus, the Philippine SF is just starting to make noise, isn't throwing off standards being too agressive? Pinoys are kind of purists anyway.
df: certainly, the same way an idea-centric story can be well-written. but the point is focus. again, our SF writers seem so intent on "style" that we seem to be forgetting the ideas which are supposed to define the genre as a distinct genre.
people seem to keep insisting that i'm throwing away the "well-written" part of literature, which i'm not. again, i am NOT making excuses for bad writing. i'm merely de-emphasizing that aspect of judging works because as long as something is "competently" written, the "good" or "bad" will be up to the individual reader to decide.
and the start is when you want to set things. i'm not "throwing off" standards as you put it. i'm setting down roots for a sturdy big-ass tree of an SF tradition. "setting standards" may be more correct.
Hehe just wanted to say that skinny has made me see the light. Though really, it wasn't such a hard conversion since I've always been leery of literary writing (which is altogether different from literary SF or SF with good writing). Likewise, I've always advocated pushing the envelope with the genre and this fits right in with the idea-centric focus of stories.
Now standards in writing... ah, that's an argument. ;-)
bc: Heheh. He really hearts SF. I guess someone should start that revolution now. Maybe make an antho of idea-centric stories.
And oh, does Steph Swainston's The Year of Our War fall on this category? Or is it really just bad writing?
df: after much thought, i think, possibly, barring being able to actually see what they'll be putting out, Philippine Genre Stories might be on that very path...
bc: so the mind-control spores have finally arrived at your doorstop. i was worried maybe they'd gotten lost floating on the way...
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